Back in the Olden Days, when we had to walk to school in the snow, uphill both ways, the only way to get awesome loot in WoW was to run Molten Core. If you didn't have 36+ friends that were all well-geared, attentive, and competent, your only chance at purples was world drops and auction housing. You could run UBRS or Strat or Scholo if you wanted to, but there wasn't really much reason; there were some nice pieces in there but gear in MC was far better. Yet you couldn't progress in MC but once a week, and you needed to be well-geared, attentive, and competent yourself.
Nowadays, loot is cake. All you need in 9 friends, and there's no trash to fight through so you don't even need a multi-hour commitment.
Better
Is the current system better? Well, what does 'better' mean? It's easier to get loot. You don't need the social structure now that was needed then. 10-mans are easier to organize than 40-mans, it's harder for a player to go AFK, it's easier to get into a guild that has 10 people that can raid on the same night at the same time, and more. The barrier to loot is lower, in that more people will be able to get this group together. Is that better?
You don't need to progress through MC then BWL then AQ20 to get to AQ40; now, run some heroics, build up some purples, then jump into a 10-man ToC group. Or, heck, some heroic 5-mans drop competitive purples. A new 10-man guild can move on to 10-man ToC fairly quickly, and then find a 25-man PUG. The time between hitting end-level and raiding the final dungeon is much lower. Is that better?
One of the reasons that initiation rituals remain in fraternities is that it makes admission to the group that much harder and stressful. We value that which was difficult to obtain. Downing Ragnaros was a serious effin task, especially before BWL was released. It was a badge of honor.
Where is that badge now? Is that relevant? Compared to 2005, nowadays many more people are seeing more content and improving their gear, without getting frustrated by organizational hurdles. Because more people get there, it's less exclusive.
Who Cares?
It doesn't seem to matter. If more people are getting more phat lewt, they're happier and having more fun. I might complain about more people reaching the "elite" end-game ranks -- but there's still a time factor. What distinguishes the top elite from the next group is when they achieved the rank, not if they got to that final boss.
I've talked to players doing 10-man normal ToC and they consider themselves up in the elite. They're very happy with their progression. They know they're not doing hard-mode, much less the 25-man version, but that doesn't seem to be a big deal. At least they're not stuck!
There were tons of players back in the first year of WoW that wanted to do MC, but couldn't, because they weren't in "the right guild." Even in that guild some players got left on the sidelines because their gear wasn't good enough. Now, those guys have somewhere to go. They're not stuck pugging MC and wiping on the first giant; they can do 5-man and 10-man content that continues to give them better loot.
Bias
I want to sit and bitch about how easy kids have it these days, but that just biases me against the current model. What makes a game fun is perceived mastery, and WoW has that.
The WoW end-game is loot acquisition, and as long as players are getting better loot, they are mastering the game.
Lessons
Progression is important. Really, that's it. Players like challenge but not because of the cost of failure. They want to succeed, and look back, and say "I overcame that." As long as players continue to progress, they'll have fun, be happy, and continue to pay.
Showing posts with label end-game. Show all posts
Showing posts with label end-game. Show all posts
Tuesday, October 27, 2009
Thursday, June 11, 2009
Reusing End-Game Content
I read a post on end-game content over at Player Vs Developer and was reminded of a suggestion I made to Blizzard long ago.
There are basically three problems that I'll address in this post: players want new content, they want a variety of content, and devolpers don't want to throw away old effort or see great content go unused.
Quake and CTF
One issue I had with Warsong Gulch (a 10-vs-10 Capture the Flag PvP zone) was that the map got boring. This is one issue with FPS games -- many players like having different maps.
Back when I played Quake, there were a handful of maps that everyone played on, and it was interesting to continue playing on the same map, over and over. I was actually learning new things about the maps after a year of play; specifically, I was learning player behavior. Learning where things are on the map is the first step; then one develops patterns; then one learns what patterns the enemy has; and then a metagame starts where players start trying to deceive their foe about what pattern they are running, etc etc. In Quake, I was learning very specific timing patterns, and how to juke out other players and make them think I was somewhere else. I was counting on my opponent knowing the map so well that I could play against that knowledge.
This is like tennis, or basketball, etc. Everyone plays tennis on the same court, don't they get bored of the same layout game after game? The answer is obviously no; the game isn't about the court, the game is about the other player.
Not so with online games like Quake or Warcraft because most players (especially new or casual players) don't want to become PvP pros. And many other players resent having to learn a map well, and instead just want to win without putting in effort. Don't underestimate your players' arrogance. Many players that suck don't believe it; they blame their losses on bad map balance, or the fact that their opponent knows the map 'too well', or some other lame excuse. Players suck. People suck.
When I played Quake on the LAN at work, I would learn the maps quickly (I'm good like that), or I'd remember the map from online play. I'd grab the rocket launcher and red armor and then start tearing people up -- in part because I also played a lot and was a good player. They'd get frustrated or bored, because to them the interesting bit was the new map, not the game mechanics themselves. They wanted a slot machine, where sometimes they won. They wanted to win; they didn't want to earn the win.
My point is that a great majority of people that will pay for your product want variety, not challenge. Don't force them to play competetive tennis; they want wacky new rules and a roll of the dice.
So am I now just bitching about WSG because I want to see new maps? Not exactly. Quake was played on a handful of maps; WSG only takes place on one map. Every time you want to play Capture-the-Flag (CTF) in WoW, you have to go to WSG. The other PvP maps have different gameplay -- Arathi Basin and Eye of the Storm both have a Battlefield/Team Fortress-like base capture mechanic; Alterac Valley is a back-and-forth push to the enemy's base.
My PvP Suggestion
My suggestion to Blizzard was to make more CTF maps, then change the queue mechanism to be somewhat like Arena, so that when someone queued for "WSG", they'd really be queueing for CTF, and sometimes they'd play in Warsong Gulch, sometimes in Netherstorm Gulch, sometimes in Grizzly Gulch, etc.
The major problem with just adding those as separate queues is that it's hard to find players. Now, even with queues spread across an entire battlegroup, sometimes it's hard to find people to play in Alterac Valley. Imagine if there were three times as many PvP queues -- some of those games would never get started! Hence: group several WSG-type maps into one queue. You get more players funnelling into the same queue, and players get to experience a wider variety in online maps. (This is why most Counter-Strike and Team Fortress servers rotate through maps!)
Players Want More Content.
This issue with finding players is also a problem (now that a new expansion has come out) for old end-game content. Who wants to run Scholomance or Kharazan? Those instances are lame! There's level 80 content to do! As much as players want variety, they don't want to do irrelevant content.
Scholomance is old. It takes too long to do all those quests. Once you hit level 61, the content starts becoming trivial, and the rewards for the grind too small. The problem is the same for level 70 instances -- it was hard then to find a group that wanted to do Mechanar, or Arcatraz, or Botanica. There were too many places to go for there to be many people that want to do one specific instance.
One way to fix this is to rebalance Scholomance so that level 80s can do it. They did that with Naxx; it's a fun challenge for 80s and the rewards are appropriate. Yet if they did this to every 60 and 70 instance, it'd be a pain to find a group to do anything. It'd be the problem with Mechanar but far bigger. Especially with the way itemization works -- one person wants to get his hat from here, the next guy needs a pair of pants that drops off a boss there, and once they got their drops they'd never want to do the instance again. It'd be nearly impossible to find someone to do any one specific instance, just because there'd be so few people that want anything that drops from there!
One way to solve that is the token system used at the end of the 60 lifecycle and was fairly widespread in the Burning Crusade world: kill a boss, get a token that can be used by a handful of classes for a number of different armor slots.
Now imagine if you needed Keeper of Time rep for some level 80 gear that you could only get from the Keepers, but that you could get the rep from any of a half-dozen old instances (rebalanced for level 80) and that it also didn't matter at all which one you did. Now you could say "I want to do one of the Caverns of Time", and anyone that wanted Keeper rep could do it. It used to be that people wanted (say) Durnholde specifically because that's where their item dropped. What if their item dropped from all of those instances instead of just one boss in just one instance?
Now everyone could do Caverns of Time again. The developers could re-use end-game content, and players would have a wider variety of options for where to go. The developers could add in one or two new CoT instances, and maybe redo one of the old ones, and everyone (new and old players alike, ancient characters and brand new alts) would have a much wider variety of content to choose from. A group of five players could choose which instance they enjoy rather than which instance that itemization forces them to pick. Players would be far more likely to be able to play a new instance, instead of feeling forced to go do the same instance over again.
The downside to this, of course, is that maybe players are bored of the Caverns -- especially those that were playing before BC came out and have been playing since. I have a hard time believing that Bliz couldn't just redo each of those levels. Seriously. They're making billions of dollars a year on the game. And they could reset KoT rep to Revered, or maybe add something past Exalted, or add a new faction that automatically becomes Revered 0/21000 if the were Exalted before, etc etc, so players would have a reason to go back.
Players want new content. Players want varied content. Developers don't want to develop content, and then effectively throw it away because no-one is doing it any more.
The easiest thing to fix, really, is throwing away content. They removed Old Naxx from the game. They could remove Old Scholomance and who would know or care? Spending the money to develop New Scholomance would be trivial to them, it would be new content even to old players, and (with sufficient itemization eg through tokens) would give players a broader set of dungeons to explore, instead of hitting Kara week after week after week after week after zzzz....
There are basically three problems that I'll address in this post: players want new content, they want a variety of content, and devolpers don't want to throw away old effort or see great content go unused.
Quake and CTF
One issue I had with Warsong Gulch (a 10-vs-10 Capture the Flag PvP zone) was that the map got boring. This is one issue with FPS games -- many players like having different maps.
Back when I played Quake, there were a handful of maps that everyone played on, and it was interesting to continue playing on the same map, over and over. I was actually learning new things about the maps after a year of play; specifically, I was learning player behavior. Learning where things are on the map is the first step; then one develops patterns; then one learns what patterns the enemy has; and then a metagame starts where players start trying to deceive their foe about what pattern they are running, etc etc. In Quake, I was learning very specific timing patterns, and how to juke out other players and make them think I was somewhere else. I was counting on my opponent knowing the map so well that I could play against that knowledge.
This is like tennis, or basketball, etc. Everyone plays tennis on the same court, don't they get bored of the same layout game after game? The answer is obviously no; the game isn't about the court, the game is about the other player.
Not so with online games like Quake or Warcraft because most players (especially new or casual players) don't want to become PvP pros. And many other players resent having to learn a map well, and instead just want to win without putting in effort. Don't underestimate your players' arrogance. Many players that suck don't believe it; they blame their losses on bad map balance, or the fact that their opponent knows the map 'too well', or some other lame excuse. Players suck. People suck.
When I played Quake on the LAN at work, I would learn the maps quickly (I'm good like that), or I'd remember the map from online play. I'd grab the rocket launcher and red armor and then start tearing people up -- in part because I also played a lot and was a good player. They'd get frustrated or bored, because to them the interesting bit was the new map, not the game mechanics themselves. They wanted a slot machine, where sometimes they won. They wanted to win; they didn't want to earn the win.
My point is that a great majority of people that will pay for your product want variety, not challenge. Don't force them to play competetive tennis; they want wacky new rules and a roll of the dice.
So am I now just bitching about WSG because I want to see new maps? Not exactly. Quake was played on a handful of maps; WSG only takes place on one map. Every time you want to play Capture-the-Flag (CTF) in WoW, you have to go to WSG. The other PvP maps have different gameplay -- Arathi Basin and Eye of the Storm both have a Battlefield/Team Fortress-like base capture mechanic; Alterac Valley is a back-and-forth push to the enemy's base.
My PvP Suggestion
My suggestion to Blizzard was to make more CTF maps, then change the queue mechanism to be somewhat like Arena, so that when someone queued for "WSG", they'd really be queueing for CTF, and sometimes they'd play in Warsong Gulch, sometimes in Netherstorm Gulch, sometimes in Grizzly Gulch, etc.
The major problem with just adding those as separate queues is that it's hard to find players. Now, even with queues spread across an entire battlegroup, sometimes it's hard to find people to play in Alterac Valley. Imagine if there were three times as many PvP queues -- some of those games would never get started! Hence: group several WSG-type maps into one queue. You get more players funnelling into the same queue, and players get to experience a wider variety in online maps. (This is why most Counter-Strike and Team Fortress servers rotate through maps!)
Players Want More Content.
This issue with finding players is also a problem (now that a new expansion has come out) for old end-game content. Who wants to run Scholomance or Kharazan? Those instances are lame! There's level 80 content to do! As much as players want variety, they don't want to do irrelevant content.
Scholomance is old. It takes too long to do all those quests. Once you hit level 61, the content starts becoming trivial, and the rewards for the grind too small. The problem is the same for level 70 instances -- it was hard then to find a group that wanted to do Mechanar, or Arcatraz, or Botanica. There were too many places to go for there to be many people that want to do one specific instance.
One way to fix this is to rebalance Scholomance so that level 80s can do it. They did that with Naxx; it's a fun challenge for 80s and the rewards are appropriate. Yet if they did this to every 60 and 70 instance, it'd be a pain to find a group to do anything. It'd be the problem with Mechanar but far bigger. Especially with the way itemization works -- one person wants to get his hat from here, the next guy needs a pair of pants that drops off a boss there, and once they got their drops they'd never want to do the instance again. It'd be nearly impossible to find someone to do any one specific instance, just because there'd be so few people that want anything that drops from there!
One way to solve that is the token system used at the end of the 60 lifecycle and was fairly widespread in the Burning Crusade world: kill a boss, get a token that can be used by a handful of classes for a number of different armor slots.
Now imagine if you needed Keeper of Time rep for some level 80 gear that you could only get from the Keepers, but that you could get the rep from any of a half-dozen old instances (rebalanced for level 80) and that it also didn't matter at all which one you did. Now you could say "I want to do one of the Caverns of Time", and anyone that wanted Keeper rep could do it. It used to be that people wanted (say) Durnholde specifically because that's where their item dropped. What if their item dropped from all of those instances instead of just one boss in just one instance?
Now everyone could do Caverns of Time again. The developers could re-use end-game content, and players would have a wider variety of options for where to go. The developers could add in one or two new CoT instances, and maybe redo one of the old ones, and everyone (new and old players alike, ancient characters and brand new alts) would have a much wider variety of content to choose from. A group of five players could choose which instance they enjoy rather than which instance that itemization forces them to pick. Players would be far more likely to be able to play a new instance, instead of feeling forced to go do the same instance over again.
The downside to this, of course, is that maybe players are bored of the Caverns -- especially those that were playing before BC came out and have been playing since. I have a hard time believing that Bliz couldn't just redo each of those levels. Seriously. They're making billions of dollars a year on the game. And they could reset KoT rep to Revered, or maybe add something past Exalted, or add a new faction that automatically becomes Revered 0/21000 if the were Exalted before, etc etc, so players would have a reason to go back.
Players want new content. Players want varied content. Developers don't want to develop content, and then effectively throw it away because no-one is doing it any more.
The easiest thing to fix, really, is throwing away content. They removed Old Naxx from the game. They could remove Old Scholomance and who would know or care? Spending the money to develop New Scholomance would be trivial to them, it would be new content even to old players, and (with sufficient itemization eg through tokens) would give players a broader set of dungeons to explore, instead of hitting Kara week after week after week after week after zzzz....
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